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> <channel><title>Comments on: Voter choice under assault by guvs, past &amp; present</title> <atom:link href="http://www.pa2012.com/2010/06/voter-choice-under-assault-by-guvs-past-and-present/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.pa2012.com/2010/06/voter-choice-under-assault-by-guvs-past-and-present/</link> <description>Your destination for PA&#039;s Big 2012 Election Races</description> <lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 00:20:56 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator> <item><title>By: Richard Saunders</title><link>http://www.pa2012.com/2010/06/voter-choice-under-assault-by-guvs-past-and-present/comment-page-1/#comment-22534</link> <dc:creator>Richard Saunders</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 23:27:01 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.pa2010.com/?p=8086#comment-22534</guid> <description>There is another point that is missed. Election of Judges has brought more diversity to the bench. Look at white-male dominated partner rolls at big firms, and then look at the ample representation of women &amp; minorities on the Common Pleas Bench in Philadelphia. Without the election process, most of those women &amp; minorities would not be there, since there are few such members in the &quot;big law&quot; club.Compare that to the roster of partners at most large law firms, which is mostly an &quot;old boys&quot; kind of thing, appointed, not elected.A &quot;blue ribbon&quot; appointment process will cause the judiciary to look less and less like the people who come before it, and there will also be a resultant bias towards big firms, big institutions, and yes, big government.To paraphrase Churchill, &quot;elections may be messy, but they beat all other alternatives&quot;.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is another point that is missed. Election of Judges has brought more diversity to the bench. Look at white-male dominated partner rolls at big firms, and then look at the ample representation of women &amp; minorities on the Common Pleas Bench in Philadelphia. Without the election process, most of those women &amp; minorities would not be there, since there are few such members in the &#8220;big law&#8221; club.</p><p>Compare that to the roster of partners at most large law firms, which is mostly an &#8220;old boys&#8221; kind of thing, appointed, not elected.</p><p>A &#8220;blue ribbon&#8221; appointment process will cause the judiciary to look less and less like the people who come before it, and there will also be a resultant bias towards big firms, big institutions, and yes, big government.</p><p>To paraphrase Churchill, &#8220;elections may be messy, but they beat all other alternatives&#8221;.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Democratic Elections &#8220;Under Assault&#8221; In PA &#124; American Courthouse</title><link>http://www.pa2012.com/2010/06/voter-choice-under-assault-by-guvs-past-and-present/comment-page-1/#comment-22505</link> <dc:creator>Democratic Elections &#8220;Under Assault&#8221; In PA &#124; American Courthouse</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 15:31:51 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.pa2010.com/?p=8086#comment-22505</guid> <description>[...] Shrader of pa2010.com summarizes Pennsylvania voter attitudes regarding the effort in that state to, in Shrader&#8217;s words, [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Shrader of pa2010.com summarizes Pennsylvania voter attitudes regarding the effort in that state to, in Shrader&#8217;s words, [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: KG</title><link>http://www.pa2012.com/2010/06/voter-choice-under-assault-by-guvs-past-and-present/comment-page-1/#comment-22504</link> <dc:creator>KG</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 15:26:12 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.pa2010.com/?p=8086#comment-22504</guid> <description>Mr. Shrader, I take issue with your premise. Special interests, not the people, decide judicial elections.  The present system of electing judges is ethically suspect.One need look no further than next door for proof. When the West Virginia Supreme Court looked likely to rule against Massey Energy (the company of the recent coal mine explosion) for hundreds of millions, company owner Don Blankenship simply spent $50 million to defeat an unfavorable judge in the next election.Sure, he lost by a popular vote of the people, but only because the campaign against him - the largest in WV history - was bankrolled by special interests.Judicial candidates have to raise money in order to campaign - from special interests like big business, labor unions and lawyers groups. Why would such groups continue to contribute to campaigns unless they were receiving some sort of benefit? How can any judge claim to be impartial after soliciting campaign contributions special interests?Either put these elections on public financing, or go to appointment by a non-partisan board.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Shrader, I take issue with your premise. Special interests, not the people, decide judicial elections.  The present system of electing judges is ethically suspect.</p><p>One need look no further than next door for proof. When the West Virginia Supreme Court looked likely to rule against Massey Energy (the company of the recent coal mine explosion) for hundreds of millions, company owner Don Blankenship simply spent $50 million to defeat an unfavorable judge in the next election.</p><p>Sure, he lost by a popular vote of the people, but only because the campaign against him &#8211; the largest in WV history &#8211; was bankrolled by special interests.</p><p>Judicial candidates have to raise money in order to campaign &#8211; from special interests like big business, labor unions and lawyers groups. Why would such groups continue to contribute to campaigns unless they were receiving some sort of benefit? How can any judge claim to be impartial after soliciting campaign contributions special interests?</p><p>Either put these elections on public financing, or go to appointment by a non-partisan board.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Vet</title><link>http://www.pa2012.com/2010/06/voter-choice-under-assault-by-guvs-past-and-present/comment-page-1/#comment-22499</link> <dc:creator>Vet</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 14:23:57 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.pa2010.com/?p=8086#comment-22499</guid> <description>You can&#039;t make your case for or against election of judges based upon abstract &quot;WE THE PEOPLE&quot; ideas and rhetoric, you need to see it and experience it.The judiciary in PA is filled to the brim with unqualified, unaccountable poltical hacks.Who funds the wannabee judges&#039; campaigns?Answer: LAWYERS, the same lawyers who come before the judges after they are elected.Sure looks like a monumental conflict of interest to me.And judges do not run for re-election, they run for retention - meaning, they have no opponent at the end of their terms.  Its essentially like encumbancy on steroids.As to the Churchilian response: appointment and confirmation is still consistent with democracy, and, we are a constitutional REPUBLIC not a pure referendum-driven democracy.Regarding the details of the Governors&#039; proposed plan, I have not looked into it.  I suspect if I had, I would probably find that it sucks.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can&#8217;t make your case for or against election of judges based upon abstract &#8220;WE THE PEOPLE&#8221; ideas and rhetoric, you need to see it and experience it.</p><p>The judiciary in PA is filled to the brim with unqualified, unaccountable poltical hacks.</p><p>Who funds the wannabee judges&#8217; campaigns?</p><p>Answer: LAWYERS, the same lawyers who come before the judges after they are elected.</p><p>Sure looks like a monumental conflict of interest to me.</p><p>And judges do not run for re-election, they run for retention &#8211; meaning, they have no opponent at the end of their terms.  Its essentially like encumbancy on steroids.</p><p>As to the Churchilian response: appointment and confirmation is still consistent with democracy, and, we are a constitutional REPUBLIC not a pure referendum-driven democracy.</p><p>Regarding the details of the Governors&#8217; proposed plan, I have not looked into it.  I suspect if I had, I would probably find that it sucks.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: RussDiamond</title><link>http://www.pa2012.com/2010/06/voter-choice-under-assault-by-guvs-past-and-present/comment-page-1/#comment-22494</link> <dc:creator>RussDiamond</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 13:52:04 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.pa2010.com/?p=8086#comment-22494</guid> <description>While the PA judiciary IS a disgrace, an appointed court could be even more of a disgrace.There are ways to depoliticize and improve the courts without going to the extreme of an appointive system. The election of judges maintains respect for the fact that We the People, not politicians, are the final arbiters of what the Constitution means.The plan currently put forward would only serve to give the PBA full control over who sits on the courts while excusing its members from making campaign contributions. Nothing more than a discount program for lawyers under the color of law. With lawyers leading the charge? I&#039;m shocked, SHOCKED!!! (/sarc)&quot;Pennsylvanians for Modern Courts?&quot; Gee whiz, that sounds awfully familiar. It&#039;s the same sort of organization that brought us the constitutional revision movement of the 1960&#039;s: &quot;A Modern Constitution for Pennsylvania, Inc.,&quot; a front group for the PBA.AKA Lawyers &amp; Politicans, Inc.: the very same folks who gave us a full time legislature, an explosion of the ABCs of government, and a court that rules 180 degrees opposite of what the Constitution says.No thanks. No way. No how. Not on my watch.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While the PA judiciary IS a disgrace, an appointed court could be even more of a disgrace.</p><p>There are ways to depoliticize and improve the courts without going to the extreme of an appointive system. The election of judges maintains respect for the fact that We the People, not politicians, are the final arbiters of what the Constitution means.</p><p>The plan currently put forward would only serve to give the PBA full control over who sits on the courts while excusing its members from making campaign contributions. Nothing more than a discount program for lawyers under the color of law. With lawyers leading the charge? I&#8217;m shocked, SHOCKED!!! (/sarc)</p><p>&#8220;Pennsylvanians for Modern Courts?&#8221; Gee whiz, that sounds awfully familiar. It&#8217;s the same sort of organization that brought us the constitutional revision movement of the 1960&#8242;s: &#8220;A Modern Constitution for Pennsylvania, Inc.,&#8221; a front group for the PBA.</p><p>AKA Lawyers &amp; Politicans, Inc.: the very same folks who gave us a full time legislature, an explosion of the ABCs of government, and a court that rules 180 degrees opposite of what the Constitution says.</p><p>No thanks. No way. No how. Not on my watch.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Rob</title><link>http://www.pa2012.com/2010/06/voter-choice-under-assault-by-guvs-past-and-present/comment-page-1/#comment-22486</link> <dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 11:43:34 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.pa2010.com/?p=8086#comment-22486</guid> <description>This op-ed presents an ignorant point of view.  The Pennsylvania judiciary is a disgrace, precisely because of partisan elections and the influence of political contributions.  Those who founded this country recognized in Article III of the U.S. Constitution that we needed an independent judiciary, i.e. one that was free of political influence.  That is because judges are supposed to be neutral, non-political, non-partisan decision-makers who decide cases solely based upon the law and the evidence, not according to popular will.  The current system in Pennsylvania degrades quality, makes judges act in a political manner, and puts Pennsylvania in a position that is hard to compete for new businesses, that do take the quality of a state&#039;s judicial system into account.  The notion of a judiciary selected by a partisan election process makes Pennsylvania a laughing stock, and rightly so.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This op-ed presents an ignorant point of view.  The Pennsylvania judiciary is a disgrace, precisely because of partisan elections and the influence of political contributions.  Those who founded this country recognized in Article III of the U.S. Constitution that we needed an independent judiciary, i.e. one that was free of political influence.  That is because judges are supposed to be neutral, non-political, non-partisan decision-makers who decide cases solely based upon the law and the evidence, not according to popular will.  The current system in Pennsylvania degrades quality, makes judges act in a political manner, and puts Pennsylvania in a position that is hard to compete for new businesses, that do take the quality of a state&#8217;s judicial system into account.  The notion of a judiciary selected by a partisan election process makes Pennsylvania a laughing stock, and rightly so.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Bob</title><link>http://www.pa2012.com/2010/06/voter-choice-under-assault-by-guvs-past-and-present/comment-page-1/#comment-22475</link> <dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 04:17:29 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.pa2010.com/?p=8086#comment-22475</guid> <description>The governors are simply trying to gather even more clout and favor of the insiders. Elect judges, period. Bar recommendations are worthless. I remain a great supporter of Governor Rendell, but his successor may not be as worthy of the people&#039;s trust as he. I know most of you Republican Tea Baggers want Rendell hung, but he has made PA better in a difficult period. If Corbett was to win, there is no way that he would fairly nominate qualified judges--just ultra-conservative hacks. One of you esteemed commentators called Bork &quot;qualified&quot;--insane is a closer adjective. At least the public can sort through the total nutcases and pick the hack of their choice. I agree with Nathan, elect--do not select.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The governors are simply trying to gather even more clout and favor of the insiders. Elect judges, period. Bar recommendations are worthless. I remain a great supporter of Governor Rendell, but his successor may not be as worthy of the people&#8217;s trust as he. I know most of you Republican Tea Baggers want Rendell hung, but he has made PA better in a difficult period. If Corbett was to win, there is no way that he would fairly nominate qualified judges&#8211;just ultra-conservative hacks. One of you esteemed commentators called Bork &#8220;qualified&#8221;&#8211;insane is a closer adjective. At least the public can sort through the total nutcases and pick the hack of their choice. I agree with Nathan, elect&#8211;do not select.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Adam Lang</title><link>http://www.pa2012.com/2010/06/voter-choice-under-assault-by-guvs-past-and-present/comment-page-1/#comment-22462</link> <dc:creator>Adam Lang</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 01:59:11 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.pa2010.com/?p=8086#comment-22462</guid> <description>I frequently go back and forth in my mind over merit selection or election of judges.  Overall I have a higher respect for federal judges than I do for PA judges.Of course that also clashes with some of the merit selection proposed ideas in PA because I think the whole idea of the state bar and an &quot;independent panel&quot; (I always laugh about independent panels ... they are appointed by someone political and really are rarely independent) is ridiculous.  If it was something simple and straightforward like the feds where the executive nominates and senate publicly vets, I would be more inclined.But then there is the other side of the coin ... I really don&#039;t trust many people in Harrisburg to make good decisions.  If the last 8 years are any indicator, merit selection would be a hot mess too (that goes for executive and legislative).So, in a nutshell, since there is no significant weight for either option, I defer to Winston Churchill, &quot;It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.&quot;So, in that regards, I do support Nathan&#039;s ideas about having judges with no political (no region?) markings and allow non-major party voters to select as well.  On that note, I would also say eliminate primaries for judges.  Save campaign costs by letting it all be sorted out in a General election.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I frequently go back and forth in my mind over merit selection or election of judges.  Overall I have a higher respect for federal judges than I do for PA judges.</p><p>Of course that also clashes with some of the merit selection proposed ideas in PA because I think the whole idea of the state bar and an &#8220;independent panel&#8221; (I always laugh about independent panels &#8230; they are appointed by someone political and really are rarely independent) is ridiculous.  If it was something simple and straightforward like the feds where the executive nominates and senate publicly vets, I would be more inclined.</p><p>But then there is the other side of the coin &#8230; I really don&#8217;t trust many people in Harrisburg to make good decisions.  If the last 8 years are any indicator, merit selection would be a hot mess too (that goes for executive and legislative).</p><p>So, in a nutshell, since there is no significant weight for either option, I defer to Winston Churchill, &#8220;It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.&#8221;</p><p>So, in that regards, I do support Nathan&#8217;s ideas about having judges with no political (no region?) markings and allow non-major party voters to select as well.  On that note, I would also say eliminate primaries for judges.  Save campaign costs by letting it all be sorted out in a General election.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: BB</title><link>http://www.pa2012.com/2010/06/voter-choice-under-assault-by-guvs-past-and-present/comment-page-1/#comment-22435</link> <dc:creator>BB</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2010 20:49:32 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.pa2010.com/?p=8086#comment-22435</guid> <description>The current governor and former governors must really think we are too stupid to understand.  Some nerve these individuals have.  The ENTIRE POLITICAL SYSTEM in Pa. is corrupt.  Elections or merit selection, either way we the taxpayer are screwed over.  There&#039;s no government for THE PEOPLE in this state, only insiders or those that can raise enough money.  Everyone else is out of the game.  The only solution is to move out of state if one can afford it or find decent employment elsewhere.  Pa. politics is a cesspool of cronyism, insider deals and the like.  Terrible, terrible state politics.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The current governor and former governors must really think we are too stupid to understand.  Some nerve these individuals have.  The ENTIRE POLITICAL SYSTEM in Pa. is corrupt.  Elections or merit selection, either way we the taxpayer are screwed over.  There&#8217;s no government for THE PEOPLE in this state, only insiders or those that can raise enough money.  Everyone else is out of the game.  The only solution is to move out of state if one can afford it or find decent employment elsewhere.  Pa. politics is a cesspool of cronyism, insider deals and the like.  Terrible, terrible state politics.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Vet</title><link>http://www.pa2012.com/2010/06/voter-choice-under-assault-by-guvs-past-and-present/comment-page-1/#comment-22433</link> <dc:creator>Vet</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2010 19:47:29 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.pa2010.com/?p=8086#comment-22433</guid> <description>NRS:What you perhaps don&#039;t realize is this; the Bar Associations have an absolute stranglehold over the judical elections with the status quo.Look at any county, and see how the bar associations do the vetting and screening, and then act as a surrogate for the Party (Dem or Repub, situationally dependant) in recommending an endorsement.  Then the party follows through and the candidate is annointed.A lot of it is through back-channels, but everyone knows that is how it is done.In fact the judical elections are far more &quot;pay-to-play&quot; than the other elections, because they are so low-profile typically, and the press (and the electorate) really doesn&#039;t scrutinize the candidates.Go into Court in filthydelphia any day of the week, both criminal and civil, and see the glorious fruits of our electoral system for judges.  Or go into any other County to see the same on a smaller scale.Its not pretty.Bar Associations are political, period.  They are also liberal, and they are a self-protecting class. And under this system, they reign supreme.Bailey:2nd paragraph, Exactly.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NRS:</p><p>What you perhaps don&#8217;t realize is this; the Bar Associations have an absolute stranglehold over the judical elections with the status quo.</p><p>Look at any county, and see how the bar associations do the vetting and screening, and then act as a surrogate for the Party (Dem or Repub, situationally dependant) in recommending an endorsement.  Then the party follows through and the candidate is annointed.</p><p>A lot of it is through back-channels, but everyone knows that is how it is done.</p><p>In fact the judical elections are far more &#8220;pay-to-play&#8221; than the other elections, because they are so low-profile typically, and the press (and the electorate) really doesn&#8217;t scrutinize the candidates.</p><p>Go into Court in filthydelphia any day of the week, both criminal and civil, and see the glorious fruits of our electoral system for judges.  Or go into any other County to see the same on a smaller scale.</p><p>Its not pretty.</p><p>Bar Associations are political, period.  They are also liberal, and they are a self-protecting class. And under this system, they reign supreme.</p><p>Bailey:</p><p>2nd paragraph, Exactly.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
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